Scott Seward - Form and Function

Whatever it is. You're trying to champion. You just have to go all in. You have to show it not only to the community and to the thing that you're willing to go all in, but it signals something to yourself that there's no safety net and you are currently leveraged beyond anything you could possibly recover from. Do you love coffee? Like really love coffee today on the podcast, we have Scott Seward co-founder of form and function who takes us on a deep dive, into the highs and lows of owning a business and why truly listening to your customers can be a major competitive advantage. We discuss art music, skateboarding, commercial real estate, and the lasting impact. A small Nampa coffee house had on so many Boise businesses that we enjoy today. Here we go. So Scott Seward, where do we start? It's not your job. Oh, okay. I mean, I'll start somewhere, but you're not. So I was aware of you for a while before I actually introduced myself. Maybe I was gazing at you from afar. Potentially could be, could have been. Yeah, that's a little overdramatized, but there is some truth, which I've mentioned at some point to making friends as an adult. It can be kind of tricky. So it's been great to get to know you the past couple of years, and we're looking forward to unpacking more of your story on this podcast. So to kick things off here is how I know you so long time with some deep roots. Yeah. Correct. Depends on who you're talking to. Yeah. Yeah. How many, how many instruments you actually play, would you say, or could play get away with, oh, get away with, if we take out the, the baritone and the trumpet probably you know, five. Yeah, something like that. You could record a whole album yourself, certainly with some keys, a fellow lover of good design. True. You send me stuff that I agree with. And so I love it. Motorcycle guys, especially vintage, correct? Yeah. Enthusiastic. Enthusiastic. Yes. We like that word. Is there a local club that you're a part of? Not a part of, but a Admira for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Family man with three young ones and a wonderful wife. How, how long have you and Kay been married to will be 14 years in August. Yeah. So partner in life and more recently partner in business. Oh yeah. Which you will get in. Client of mine, both in design and real estate, sort of, I helped you for sure. Force you to sell your house last year. Yeah, no, you were crucial in that operation. I never want to sell my house. No, you do want to sell your house selling there. We talked about it for a while and here are the moving boxes. And then I think when I texted you that everything in fun and recorded, Kate was like, so we're moving. What do we do now? But it worked out right. It worked out. Yeah. Yeah. We're still figuring that out, but yeah. Yeah. Purveyor of fine coffee as the owner and operator with Kate, a foreman function, as well as the district in downtown Boise. And can't wait to see what's next. So all of that to say, that's how I know you. How would your friends describe you? Yeah, pretty much like that. I think. Yeah. I mean we, yeah, I've been in Boise long time. We actually from Nampa moved there. I was six years old. Yeah, it came to Boise. I guess we moved here in 2011. Yeah. We were like in the Belgravia building then got our spot over in the north end there and now we're south Boise, so we've been all around, but yeah, no, we've I mean, we kind of came up through the music scene. That was our main connection to the city. Really? It just playing shows and going to shows from the neural Lux to, you know, like old JD and friends or whatever. I mean, that's kinda how we came up was through that zone. Got introduced to might be personally introduced to coffee through flying him in Nampa. But yeah, we used to own a skateboard shop in Nampa. And so it kind of got our feet wet with business ownership level there that was in 2008. And didn't go very well. So once that closed down and we moved over to Boise, I just kind of. Whet our appetite for business and what that could mean and what it looked like to do things on our own. We've done a lots of, have tons of different jobs and done lots of different things, but I think it yeah, it just, it was more fun for us to take those risks ourselves and to eliminate any kind of glass ceiling and just go for it, you know, and all the mistakes we made were our own, you know, and couldn't really blame anybody but ourselves. So, yeah. So what was that first business in Napa that a skateboard shop? Yeah. So downtown skate shop DTS. Yeah, so we actually purchased it from the people that started at DTS. Yeah. That's an interesting collection of initials that I know in other capacities as well. Yeah, ours was in the scape specific realm, but yeah, it was what it stands for downtown skate shop. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a, it had been a shop, I think five or six years before we took over. Okay. But yeah, being Kate NEI. Yeah. Yeah. So we got married in two. Bought our first house and then bought that business. Wow. And so it was already existing when you bought it. Yep. Yeah. The people that owned, it were moving out of town. They were going to Southern California to continue there. They had another skate brand and that was growing and moving. And so they were doing that. We had kind of just like happened onto it. I always loved skateboarding. Love the industry was never very good at it, but just loved the culture and the people I'd actually helped them design some flyers. I tried to go to school for design and art and so I'd helped them. I could never figure out how to hand draw stuff and then put it into the computer. That was the disconnect for me. So I had hand drawn some flyers, done some stuff for some skate competitions and kind of how we got introduced to each other. And then really it, it they randomly kind of approached and said, Hey, we're doing this. Would you be interested in buying the shop? And, and Kate and I were just talking about this, but we put it together. I mean, I was 20 and went to a bunch of banks, you know, with a tie, trying to get money. Of course, they wouldn't give me any and going for a skateboard shop. Yeah. You're faking it. Yeah. And zero experience in that industry or anything, you know? And so it was yeah, it was an interesting move, but yeah, we, we put a down payment on it and took the whole thing over it. Actually, we put a ton of, we remodeled the space and we bought a bus and, you know, had the skate team and the whole thing bought a bunch of gear. I was wanting it to be really art forward. So bought a bunch of like kind of art forward stuff. And it just did not fly. I wasn't in tune. And I somebody told me that retail, you can't it's not a museum, you know, it's a store, but I, I would be like, it was just too hard for me to sell things that I'd purchased, you know, for like a discount. Like I can't take a loss on it and I just didn't understand how all that worked. And so didn't didn't go very well. Our band went on tour and I stayed home and sold everything and shut her down. I link it lasted for like, Year, just over a year, but I'd been there for five or six years, and then we took over and it slowly died. What would you say? A decent financial loss. Oh yeah, I lost, we lost a, a lot. I mean, we put ourselves in a position where, I mean, we were, we didn't have much, but we we had a house and we, we got to keep the house, but I mean, like I sold my cars to pay for back rent and it was a lot of negotiating, a lot of sitting down with people that I owed money to and explaining the situation and trying to figure out how to write. I learned how to write legal ease really well. I did a lot of studying and research to figure out how to, how to put things on paper that were going to hold water. And so, yeah, it was, it was it was really, for me, it was pretty humiliating. I borrowed some money. I didn't go to, I didn't finish college. And so I borrowed some money from my. Then they said, if we stayed in business for three years, which would have been the extent of my college education, I wouldn't have to pay it back because they hadn't saved it for that. But if I went out before that, we had to pay it back. So it took me, I think, another two years to pay that back to my parents and got square with those guys. And yeah, it was it was pretty intense. It was pretty humiliating for me to have to like, admit that kind of failure. And at age 21, you're like sorta, I think most 21 year olds feel like they're sort of on top of the world, like in your, like how it all came. I was the cool guy then owned a skate shop and now yeah, we're closed. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, yeah, I think it was interesting to see how passion and you know, like connectedness to a community doesn't necessarily equate to dollars, you know, and how, even though I like the stuff that I liked with a passion and I brought stuff in that I thought was cool. I still had to sell it to people and if they weren't buying, that was a problem. And so it was really you know, we learned a lot of lessons in that. Like, you know, you have to sell things, you know, you can stand on your principle and you can stand on, you know, what you think is a good design idea or whatever, but if it's not moving and it's just sitting there and you know, it was a, it was we learned lots of things about managing people and we did lots of trading and lots of, you know, we had at the time, so my wife, Kate had three jobs and I had four and that was all part of the deal, you know? So we were, we would high five on the way out the door. And it was about as much as we saw each other that whole year we were working at flying in a brick twin nine. Veestro just open. I was bartending there was doing music for a local church. And then we had the skate shop. Kate was coaching, collegiate softball. She was running the skate shop. She was working at flying them. So it was, I mean, we were all over the place. Plus we had. Our peripheral pursuits and music and, and yeah, the band went on tour that summer. And I didn't get to go first time I ever would've gone on a us tour like that. So they all went without me and I stayed home and I don't know anything about this band. What is the band called? It was at that time, it was called full blah. Yeah. We it began life as a group called mayor force one in the academy of arts and sciences. And it was an amalgamation of the pretty long it was. Yeah. I remember Sam. Yeah, Sam over at the, at the back, the visual arts collective asked us to short it. Cause at the time he had to take out like two lines in the newspaper when we posted the shows. Cause it was like it's too many lines of costs, extra money. The board was like, this is going to take 10 minutes. Yeah. It was a very polyphonic spree and it's a bread. So we had a ton of people up there and it was, it was. Combination of a couple of different bands all squished together, and then it ended up just working out. So change the name to foot wall later. Yeah. And both you and Kate were in the bank, right? Yes. Yeah. She's a great guitar player and singer and yeah, so she was playing guitar. So she toured with them playing guitar that whole summer. And, yeah. And where was the skate shop at this time? Was that like on the down he was on the out, you were probably super bummed at home. Checking in with your wife on tour. Oh man. Yeah. That was the worst. Some of the worst times of my life. Yeah. Watching them, like getting the call of like, you'll never believe that we just left stage with, you know, giant band X and we're at this cool festival. And I was like, cool, just sold my land cruiser. And you know, like trying to find out how many instruments I can sell and still call myself a musician. It was yeah. And just meeting with people that he owed money to. I mean, when it all, you know, pushing off rent and, you know, they got back rent and looking at that, like. How are we going to make this work? You know? And so we had, I mean, honestly, we had leveraged everything that we had and had put everything on the line. We had put a bunch of our own money out there, but I mean, I say a bunch, but we had, you know, at 20 years old, whenever that equated to, but it was, you know, we bought our house in right in the recession. So got a great deal remodeled the whole thing and turn the basement into an apartment. So we had some like, you know, flexibility and our revenue, we're trying to maximize those areas, but I don't know if we knew we were maximizing and we were just doing it. Cause that's just what we did, but yeah, it's yeah, it was an interesting moment. I think we got to the point where we realized if we were going to keep doing it, we were going to have to put our own, like the money I was making at the bar or a flying M I was going to put that money into it. And we just weren't in a place where that made sense for us. And so. It was easier in our minds to, for me to sit down with all the people who he owed money to and cry in their lap and see if they would give us a break. So it's a very, if you're going to fail, you got to do it fast. Yeah, we did. Yeah. It was pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah. We, we failed very quickly. So that was that was a steep decline, but yeah, it was, it was an interesting experience. I think at the time, you know, I could have blamed a lot of different people and I, I think I did, like this was their fault or this happened, or these guys did that. And there was some things that, you know, we were taken advantage of in some ways, but at the end of the day, I just, you know, I didn't have the acumen to, and really, we didn't have the bandwidth. We didn't go all in. I mean, that was one of four jobs I had. So it was clear that I wasn't willing to risk everything to do that. You know, it was, it was something that I was doing that I was trying, but I continued to maintain basically every safety net I could. And so it, it went down and. I think it's now like a hookah shop or a vape shop or something, but we were right on the corner right next to flying them down there. And it was a time when, like, so Joe and Diana Shaffer from slow by slow, they had white pine, which was their clothing in boutique there. We had the skate shop, we were all working at flying them. Like, it was just a great group of people. John and Cassidy had messenger and like, we, it was just this whole group of people with Kevin and Lisa with flying them. Like we all lived, we almost all have the same house address, just different blocks from like 13th to 16th. And we just lived in where we thought we were going to take over Nampa and, and, you know, change it for the better we all gave it a serious try what you had. Yeah. But yeah. And here we are, and we're all now we're all still in coffee and you know, something that stuck is pretty funny. I don't know if Kevin and Lisa knew what they were creating, but they they bred a lot of really cool coffee people and like a great community. Yeah, it was just a great, I mean, Caleb and Lori are doing flying in to Caldwell. Jordanna up slow by slow. We've got forum and district. So just fun to see everybody kind of, you know, Sean is still running the Nampa shop, so it's yeah. It's cool to see what's happened from that kind of that, that moment in time. Well, first chapter of your business career taught you quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. Certainly. I mean, I, I think we're still, I'm still gleaning lessons from that understanding again, like whose fault it really was, you know? Or like what, yeah, it was a lot of people I could have blamed and in my youth did blame, but then the farther away I've gotten, you know, you look back and things come into a little sharper focus and you realize like, oh, that was my fault. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day I was, you know, I was the one that was. Guiding that ship. So yeah, growing up and becoming more mature. Right. Are we all? Yeah, hopefully. And now you even use the word acumen, so you've definitely become mature. Well, I've got a list here. I've got a list of large words here I plan on using throughout. So now that all the folk in Nampa are not trying to come break your legs and collect on debts, including your parents. Right. Okay. So that was, that was a while back. What was next move from there where you, like, I'm never owning a business again, or were you like, I'll do it different next time? Yeah. I love, I love business. I think it, I mean, I've worked in so many different industries and had a lot of jobs. Love trying stuff out. I, when I was, I used to work in the construction industry doing industrial construction and I would travel a lot for trade shows and stuff. And I just, I love hearing how people make money. I think it's really interesting to me. I love that part of, you know, there's always somebody that's doing something. That makes them a living that doesn't make any sense at all. They make the thing that goes to something else and, you know, and I always thought that was so interesting and just, I'm naturally pretty curious. And so I was just always interested in how people make a living and that, that I think that part of survival is pretty, it's pretty neat. And some people don't work much and make a bunch, some people work a ton and make a little bit, I mean, just the whole, the, the spectrum is really neat. So I, it really just was like, I mean, I worked a lot of places did a lot of things. I don't think I ever lost my appetite for a business. I just, the idea of it. I think working for other people, especially sitting in some boardrooms and you just end up thinking like, man, I think I could do this a little different, or if I was doing this, I would do that. And it just comes to a certain point where you just got to either complain about whoever you're working for, or you just do it yourself. And so the only person you have to complain about is you and, and, you know, that's where. You know where we're at right now, but it really just comes from like really a passion to see, you know, people treated in a certain way and to see products produced in a certain way. And, and yeah, it comes at a point where you just got to stop yapping and do it yourself. So we'll flash forward to, so Kate is kind of the one who dove in first, right? A little bit. I mean, you were there, but you were holding down the, can we call it a corporate gig? Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah, no, she is a construction. The corporate gig. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Doing construction at that time, I think. So when we were let's see. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was a hundred percent Kate. We, I was at Calvary chapel, Kate and I were both working for Calvary chapel doing the music program there and that's where district coffee house came from. So Kate worked with them, they had the. Concept and they used to be a fifth and main, like where the what's it called? The S the capital city sellers or, yeah, yeah. It's on fifth and main and the Belgravia downstairs. So that used to be where the district was located. We actually lived upstairs. What year was that? 10, 11, I think right in there. And they were just, just starting that out. And that's kind of, when we came on the scene, they also had another cafe up on Franklin where their churches they're called the red letter and when they found out, so they also had a lobby coffee bar thing when they found out that Kate knew how to do coffee stuff, that kind of became her main gig for them. And she's incredible. I mean, she's just a shredder when it comes to like efficiency and business. I mean, she just understands it so intuitively, and I'm not sure they knew what they were getting themselves into by cutting her loose. And she just went after it and built. I mean, just grew everything that she touched into something really great. So shifted down to district downtown. At that time, it was 100% volunteer driven. So every quote unquote employee was a volunteer. So you're training a lot of volunteers and of course, people would volunteer to get trained by Kate, and then they would leave to go say that they had experience working in different jobs, you know, like it was a great way to get free training. And so she was training a lot. And then you can imagine running a business, quote, unquote, with employees, with employees that are all volunteers. They don't have to be there. And they, you know, so really tricky way to run a business, ended up getting some opportunity to move it to where it is now on the corner of 10th and bannock where the old Boise cafe used to be. Oh, I just remember driving by and seeing those late night dancing, just hoping my wife would not say, Hey, we should go. No, man, we did it a time or two. We did a timer to everyone and that was around boy. Had at some point, at least been dragged in there once. Yeah, we should. We should really fire up, bring yourselves tonight's again. I think we need to do something there, but yeah, so it, when it moved to that spot was really when Kate started making some changes and saying like, if we're going to do this, we need to like run it like a business. So it shifted from volunteers to actual paid employees. And again, she just applied herself in a way to that project that made it explode. And so it went from making nothing to being an actual viable business, which was owned by a nonprofit. And so it really became for a nonprofit. Like you really have to make those decisions. Like, are we running a nonprofit? Are we running a business because they're run differently. And so you have to make that decision, which one do we want to be? Typically non-profits lose money or they spend money on things they're not really known for making money. And so it was really changing that mentality if you're working for a nonprofit and you're not doing a great job as an employee. Typically you're given multiple chances over and over and over. And so it shifted, she really shifted that mentality and it was tricky, but it was, she did an incredible job. And through that, I mean, district was one of the first to do pour overs and Boise. And the first to do Cemex had cold brew on tap. Like a lot of that kind of stuff that was brand new back then she was really blazing that trail. And they were roasting their own coffee. And yeah, I mean, she was just the captain of that ship a hundred percent. And when our daughter was born in 2015 she took some time away. And really during that time, I think it was during that break, that she got an opportunity to speak at food for it. They had like a coffee panel that year and she spoke and we were introduced to DECA Ralph, who was a guy in town that was, you know, doing some investment in business that was somewhere else. Anyway, he approached us and her and said, Hey, you know, would you be interested in talking to these people that are kind of pioneering this new coffee equipment? And that really kind of set the stage for us. We went to Denver and met with them and there was, it kinda set the stage for us to say, like at the time it was a coffee roasting machine and new technology. And they said, essentially, we will give you one of these for free, if you help us develop it. And so we did that, but it was really, that kind of was like, well, if we have this free coffee roaster, like, should we create a coffee shop to go with it? And that was really the impetus to say, we could do this, you know, and we were Ron break from district at the time. And, and so we actually approached the church then and asked if they'd be interested in offloading district at that point. And they weren't in a position to do that, or hadn't really thought of that yet. And so form and function was born out of that kind of white space. That was between district and. This opportunity. And so we thought let's just create this new shop and kind of created around the concept of this new technology, coffee roasting thing. And it was really like tech forward. It was really like cutting edge, really bleeding edge stuff of where coffee tech was going in the future. That was kind of how it was sold. And we launched, or my function as a coffee cart at the market. I mean, that's a whole other story about our SBA loan came due and we didn't have a building yet. So we were paying money for a coffee shop that didn't exist. So we bought an existing coffee cart from some people in salt lake city and started doing the market just to make ends meet so that we could pay for our SBA loan. That was, you know, we had payments due. And so we use that to make that happen. Your coffee at that time. Yeah. So we were roasting and it was all based out of Oakland, California. So we flew over there. Gosh, two or three times, and was working with them to develop that technology. And then they were roasting it remotely and then shipping it to us in the mail. And then we had purchased a coffee roaster, and I was roasting in our garage portions of it. They were roasting some all waiting for this new roaster to be developed. And during the course of that whole time, that project kind of fell apart. And it went from a free roaster to 10,000 to 20,000 to 40,000. And you've got an SBA loan. Yeah. And just free roaster. And you can buy a traditional roaster for a fraction of that. So it was, you know, staring down the barrel of this new tech that had morphed from a gift to now a liability. And so we decided to part ways with that company, which was so interesting because it was the whole reason. I mean, we had a spot in our shop that was, you know, the size of the rest of the roasters going to go in our store. And so we decided like, you know what, this isn't gonna work. And we pivoted and purchase a drum roaster and a. It was the best decision for our business. I think we didn't understand that we were making, but it was so good. And it has been really good for us to give us more room to grow and yeah, and we just went for it and just ended up, I mean, we had to rent a separate space because now it was a traditional roaster that wouldn't fit in the shop. So that was an extra expense. And we have even at the current foreman and function location, you had a spot for it there. Yes, I am the build-out. And so talk a little about the build-out because I was a brand new building and the design that went into that was obviously you walk in and you can tell, like they didn't, didn't just fall into this. There was a little bit of thought into the layout and the design research. And tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. And it, yeah, I mean, we had set our business plan at, you know, as far as our construction budget, we had set that at essentially remodel of existing, you know, that was kind of what we for. The impact of that particular budget. We were really, so we had planned to go where barbarian and beer brewing is now where the old crux space was. And we looked around for forever. We've been in it's actually kind of what got me started in commercial or interested in commercial real estate. It was, it I've been in every single building in this city. Just be, I mean, I called everybody, I went through the, in trails of the city's public works that, I mean, like found the phone numbers of anybody that owned any building and cold called all of them, just to see if they had, by chance a space in this random building that I found that I thought was interesting. Kind of like you with your lot. True. Exactly. Yeah. Very similar. And then yeah, there. Similarities between your lot in your house and form and function. And the way we built that out are very similar. Yeah. I didn't realize that till now. Yeah. Yeah. So we ended up at the old crux spot and yeah, Christmas Eve and the owner of that space called us and said, Hey, we just, I went with somebody else. And we were like, contractors on site. Like everything was ready to rip. And, and they didn't barbarian didn't know that there was somebody else that was working on it, but yeah, he just pulled the rug out. And so we were left with an SBA loan. I mean, that's basically when we bought the cart, cause we were like, what are we going to do? Like, we, we were like months away from opening the doors and we had our contractor there. Everything was ready to go. And it all went away. And then shortly thereafter local construct, which is now roundhouse through a friend that was working on other projects that they had said, Hey, call these guys they're coffee people. They were looking for purveyor in their valor building that they're building out there reached out to us. And that really started the relationship and it couldn't have been more serendipitous, like the way that it worked out. And they were looking, I mean, we sat down at the negotiating table and we were like, we are the business that you need in this spot. And they were like, we are the building that you need to be in then. So we had this, like the negotiation was essentially like, we need each other, so let's figure out how to make this work. And they did, and we got a great deal and they were just growing. I mean, just kind of starting as a company and we were too, so it was all happening at the same time and they helped us get that going. Where were they at in construction? Cause it's a large building, has apartments above it. I don't know, eight floors, something like maybe seven. Yeah, seven, eight floors. And it's, I mean, that's, I don't know if you're familiar with the construction of that building, but it was pretty storied just with Anderson and how that whole situation went down. I was doing industrial construction at the time for my day job. So I spoke their language and I was really. That helped us kind of come to the table and they respected our ability to understand the dynamics of the project and what needed to happen and how we could potentially fit into the relationship that they had with Anderson and construction. Like that requires, you know, there's a lot of other people involved and so, you know, insurance companies and all this stuff. And so I was able to gratefully understand how that dynamic worked and then put us into that. So we could utilize our own contractor for our own project to keep our costs down. And we basically gave him all the money we had and we just showed all of our cards and said, here's everything we have. We don't have any more than this. If you want us to be in here, what we're going to need your help. And we just maximize every dollar. I mean, I worked in there every night and we, I mean, it was, it was a definitely a labor of love. Everything was Jed, like you mentioned, it was everything is intentional about every piece of that space. And Kate is. Is so good at it really championing those details. And we had to, I mean, we, I drew out every single thing to the inch in Google SketchUp. It is all 3d modeled perfectly because it was so hard to explain to anybody. No, when we say simple, we mean, this is it like, sorry, it was actually identical to your right. And I get along so well, we did the same thing at the same time. Different and yeah. Yeah. I can come get coffee there and you can come over and have a beer at my place. Isn't it weird? Yeah. So it was, it was a, it was a journey. I mean, opening it because of, and, and honestly all the little things like the farmer's market, we didn't understand what that would do for us as a brand. I mean, we had, because we were so ready to be open. We had you know, with jets help, fully branded cups, fully branded coffee bags. We had custom made chocolate. We had t-shirts we had. Everything. We had mugs with our name on them. People asked if we were like a chain, because they were like, how do you have your own chocolate you're way too far ahead. Yeah. Like, oh, well, Kate's been talking to Nathan Miller, these chocolate makers in New York. And, you know, and like, it was just those types of things were really you know, again, just little passion projects that ended up in the end being like, like, oh, this is amazing that this worked like this. And so when we opened, we opened with everything. Everything was branded, you know, a lot of this stuff, even though our coffee was being made all over the country, it was we were still able to open with stuff in our hand that was ready to go. And everything was like really curated and really particular from the wholesale booklets that we would give restaurants to the coffee cards that champion the farmers we're working with all those little pieces. We had had time to work on and really open with a full litany of, of. Add ons to, you know, what we thought was a great coffee, but now we had all this stuff to kind of like go around it and package it as a whole deal. So it ended up being because of the market people. We had an opportunity to have people experience our product before the shop was ever opened. And so every week we're stand in front of the people, just my wife and I get an input, 30 inches away. It's saying like, you know, I mean like, do you like this product? Do you not like, oh, this is who we are. And this is the kind of thing that we're trying to do. And everybody's like, man, show us, you know, as soon as you're open, let us know. And so when we opened, I mean, we had a line. I mean, it was just crazy that first day we were like, oh my gosh, we hit our like three year projections, I think within the first couple of months. Wow. And I was supposed to work for two full years, two to three full years. I was supposed to continue to work my job. That was the plan. And we opened in December and I quit in April. And it was just like, we can't keep, it was just too much amazing. Yeah. And, and during the course of all that the church approached us during that time and said, Hey, we're done with district and we're going to put it on the street for sale, unless you guys are interested in, we had just opened form with this. Like it's, I mean, like, it was an unbelievably difficult project to actually get to have happen. And we told them no, like, it was crazy. We just did this thing. But basically they were like your head around that basically they were like, well, we're going to close it or sell it to somebody else. And we were like, well, we don't want you to do either of those things. So that kind of left us holding the bag of like, well, and so we talked about it in six months after we opened form, we took over that was July of 18 that we opened district. So, and that was kind of Kate's baby, too. Right. It was like, Keep that in the family. Yeah. I mean, we opened and when, I mean, when we went in there as the owners now, I mean, her sticky notes were still on every, a piece of equipment. Like the, everything was still the same, you know, we walked in, it still is like, it floors us to think all the tireless, like hours that she put into that space and all of the effort and the energy that she put into it, just as a, you know, because she loved the industry and loved what she was doing and the people she was working with, it kind of came back to pay dividends to her. And, you know, it repaid her for all that work that she put in to be able to come back to it then and be like, oh wait, this was all for you. You know, you, you know, this stuff that you had, you know, toiled over initially now is a part of your story. And we can say like, oh wow, that stuff we pushed for to make district a certain way. Now we get to take that and champion and onto the next level. And, you know, it's shifted from a non-profit to a for-profit, which was a kind of a sticky transition. It's not an easy thing. Shift to, but you know, we did it and it's it's still there, you know, going on nine years of like being in business and just crazy that it's become what it is, you know, that it's kind of a little hub, like people know district it's just there, you know, like in it it's so many meetups for people that they experience or they have a favorite. I mean, they always bring up what the chai isn't the child reference for. Yeah. Yeah. We even changed the opinion, says famous district check, but yeah, it's a, yeah, it's crazy. I mean, we have wedding engagements, we've had a few weddings there and there was music in the evenings at some point, right? It was that before there are some before and after we did three shows a week, we were doing live music there three nights a week for years. And having in subsequent years, it just, the licensing got so expensive. That's a whole nother thing, but we're really anxious to get that back, you know? Musician your whole life. And then you buy a music venue and close it immediately just save money. It's a, it's the opposite of what we want to do, but it is kind of an extra thing right now, but boys, he's so hungry for all ages venues right now that, you know, like Boise rock school, doing what they're doing with their building, but you know, to have spaces in the community. I mean, that's how we all came up, you know, playing in little coffee shops. So there, there isn't that anymore. And so we want to be able to provide that space, but it has no bogeys anymore. There's no buggies. Yeah. When like crux was doing it, you know, I mean there's places in Meridian and Nampa, one more cup or, you know, the library and Meridian was a place that for a there that please, that was where Boise brewing is now. Yeah. The venue, the venue. Yeah. Oh wait, that's the crazy part. Like we played shows at the venue high school and college, like my bands played there and like now. Form and function is in the parking lot at the venue. Like I probably smoked my first cigarette, like where our counter is, you know, it's just like crazy to be like, man, that was, they didn't even put that together until now. The flame. Yeah. I've been hung out there plenty of time in south France coming through town and met up with them there. I did not make that connection. Yeah. It was, they still had the stickers to Boise brewing painted the, and actually Dreyfus did the door, the door was still covered in stickers and like all the bands had sign that, you know, power meter out there. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely crazy to be, I mean, to have been around, I guess, long enough for those things to have happened, but then also like be in that space and that spot now, like, oh yeah, this is the parking lot of the venue, you know? So, all right. I got a laundry list of questions. First one. How long has form and function been opened? We'll be four years. So it'll be, well, it's been four years. Yeah. So it'll be five in December. Okay. And completely blew. Your projections out of the water year, over year. Over year. Yeah. Yeah. Except for a couple of there. Well, COVID there was that. Yeah. But yeah, no, we yeah, I mean, it, it, year three was kind of ground zero for, I mean, that was where it started for our projection. So, yeah. And then your wife's interest in this scene was burst through flying M and Nampa. Is that where it came from? I think on that level. Yeah. Yeah. She started working I mean, worked at Dutch bros in Redding, California when she was there and going through, I lived in Redding. Yeah. Probably served your coffee. What was the time? 2004 or five. We were there. That is hilarious. She went to Shasta college. So she was going to school up there and then transferred to, to NNU. Very interesting. It started there and then became you weren't there, right? I was not. Okay. But when visited many times. So do you know, was there a particular location where she was working? I, yes. And I can't remember. There's it's like, it's like right downtown, like the kind of, there's like a road that goes around and I can't remember exactly, but they were all there. And so Andrew and Shana, Randall, the ones that opened that have Dutch bros, the DDTC and Nampa, those are super good friends of ours. Totally. And Kate worked with Andrew at the stand reading and that's how they all kind of met. And then they moved here and gotcha. So Kate and I used to live with those guys and now they're doing Dutch bros and, you know, so it's. Yeah. But yeah, so that's like where her coffee experience started then really flying in. I think, you know, speaking for her, I suppose. It was really where it went to the next level of like, oh, this could be there's other things. And really district, you know, because of what she learned from flying M district kind of, she had a carte blanche, like she could, she was running the show, so she kind of choose whatever she wanted and was dialed enough with the industry that she was able to try new things. And yeah, I mean, Instagram was like, just started, you know, about that time. And so really getting like visual exposure to other brands and what they were doing across the country at that time, she could see those and say, oh, you know, that's what's happening. And we love to travel. And so we go around to shops and, you know, all over the place and experience those and then think like, oh, we could do that here. Huge evolution in coffee, like everything, like what. I think of what wave we're on there. We're on the third we're deep, deep, third, deep third. But people are talking about like, oh, we're fifth wave. They're like pushing that. Yeah. I mean, it's still, I mean, who knows at this point, there's so much w what's his second, like Starbucks. Yeah. So second was really, yeah. Like you consider like flying them. Dawson's they really set that in this area that would have been like, you know, second way there. They're definitely pushing that. Right. Anybody that doesn't know the waves. Can you give us just a quick elevator pitch version? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, first wave would have been essentially coffee available to everybody. Like you picture your large Folgers style company. So are you able to like buy coffee at the store and it was something you could make at your house? You know, really think even too, I mean, go back like Joe DiMaggio, Mr. Coffee pitch ads, you know, I mean, that was in the sixties, seventies, probably seventies, I guess. And. That, that era where it was, I can make coffee at my house, this kind of first coffee for the people kind of a movement. The second wave was really Starbucks pioneered, which was the coffee shop as what they refer to as a third place, wasn't home. It wasn't work. It was between those two. And so the second wave was really coffee as an experience and as someplace to go to sit down and to have a connection with somebody, the coffee shop became a spot in something that you went to, you look forward to the third wave, then really pioneered and pushed forward. This idea that coffee was a, an experience was sensorial. It was like, you know, it was all about seeing it feeling it, it was really that farm to table movement to it was where did this coffee come from? What can we do to maximize. This product to help it shine through. And can we champion it on a science level? Can we empirically prove that we can make a good cup of coffee by applying science to it? And so you're getting things like refractometers and guys talking about total dissolved solids, like really what you're saying, like not just to subjectively I enjoy the taste of this coffee, but really objectively I've extracted every bit of this bean into this cup. And I know it because I have this piece of scientific equipment that tells me I'm within an appropriate range. So it was really that third wave was coffee as science, coffee, as an experience, it's more than just a place to go, but it's a thing to experience and be a part of that. And if we're moving to a fourth wave, what would that be? It seems like the fourth wave is really getting into, again, pushing deeper into the science, understanding all aspects of what coffee is from water. I mean, like the type of water using and water recipes to, you know, really like understanding where it's coming from, who was growing it and then pushing into really deep data parameters. I think that's kind of where it gets loses. Some people is you're getting into the, like on a roasting level and a, you know, there's equipment now that has the ability to tell you what's going on within each shot of espresso. And so you're getting this data readout that's in real time, that's right in front of your face and stuff like that, that it doesn't even make sense until, you know, like there's so much information nobody's ordering a quad mocha and that fourth wave shop. No. Yeah. And it's a lot of it. A lot of it is, and has been like, here's your coffee and your welcome kind of a thing. You know, a lot of people talk about third way of being pretentious and that kind of thing. There was, there was definitely a moment of that in that industry where it was, you know, like. Your it's your pleasure to come into my coffee shop. And if I don't like you I'll make you feel that, but that was kind of the antithesis of like Kate and I and what we even like wanted out of coffee and just, I think, I don't think there's a shop in town that really has that vibe and whether it's slow or neck or push or any of those guys that are, that are leaning forward, you know, they're all wonderful people that are producing great products. I don't think Boise has that vibe, but there certainly was some of that. I don't think Boise is big enough to have that vibe. I think you'd, do you have collaboration with some of the other roasters and shops or like, are you just friends or throw ideas around or what sort of seen as there on, yeah, I think we're all friends. I think, you know, we all like known each other for a long time. We all have really unique vibes. I think it's really special. The ones that the guys that are here, I mean, like obviously grant and Zoe doing Necker, like their pour-over bar stuff. I mean, the stuff they were doing in that space. I mean, they're the first ones to be doing that kind of stuff. And that, that time, like he had that crazy pour-over bar outside thing. And that was awesome. I mean, it was beautiful. And I remember seeing that and being like, whoa, you know, these guys are doing it. That's the science forward. Yeah. Oh yeah. And doing pour overs outside. I mean, when we, we still do our mobile stuff and we call it coffee in the wild, cause it's like, it's variable. I have nothing else. And like, you know, something, you get that. And they got slow by slow as a multi-roaster and just like championing the stuff that they do. And it's so specific and it's so like just them and it's so much of their personality and like such a great spot. That's so specific. TJ has been there a couple of times. I'm a, a thousand maybe. I mean, that's probably, I'm a slow by slow champion. Yeah, yeah. Same, same. And they, you know, we do like as a multi-roaster, you know, they like, they've used some of our stuff before and used our decaf a bit and you know, they're just good friends of ours have been since, I mean, I was in the car when Joe. Pulled over speeding. And as Noah and the, whatever, you know, I don't know what grade are in like freshmen softwares. I mean, so we've been friends forever and yeah, just great people. I mean, I think that's the fun piece about the community right now is it's just like a bunch of regular dudes just try and stuff and just loving the city and loving the people in it. And we all, you know, be able to like, oh, well I'm a slow by slow person. Or I'm a Necker person was like, that's awesome. Those are all really cool people, big enough for everybody. And they're also specific in their vibe. mean, we'll do stuff like LATERA throwdowns, which are, yeah. I was going to ask you about that. That's been going on for a couple of months now. Yeah. So there's a third party. That's been hosting them and throwing them, which has been great because the third party I it's switched hands recently. And I think I think Richard and Courtney are doing it now there, it was like an Instagram that the guy had started and I'm probably gonna get this wrong. The basically just a guy that's wanting to do it. He ended up moving in and handed the torch off to some other folks, but yeah, just like wanting to get the coffee community together and do these throwdowns, which is super cool. We've hosted, I don't know, three or four of them as foreman function, but sometimes it's hard as you know, to host it as one shop that, you know, you want everybody to come, but you know, so everybody kind of needs to host and everybody needs to be sharing that. And sorry for somebody who's listening. That has no idea what a coffee throw down is. Please explain. So it's a latte, art Throwdown. So it's essentially being able to pour the art, the pictures on the top of the coffee that, that latte art and it's like high pressure. We do it. Single elimination bracket. Usually start with anybody that wants to participate. You go to like say if it was a forum, they would come behind the counter. Somebody pulling shots, you steam your own milk and then pour the art. Anybody that wants to do it does it. There's a judge at three people and they just 1, 2, 3. And you point at the. And so you pick the top 32 and then you just do a bracket and it's single elimination to the winner. So it's, it's part of like being able to be consistent and poor art all the time. And the other piece of it is being, you know, calm under pressure. There's some incredible artists in town that you just, you know, you think are like, oh, I'm not going to do it because this guy is competing and he's going to win, but can't handle the pressure. And like our guy, our guy, Sam, if you're, if you're listening to the Sam, Like unbelievable. But anytime they ratchet up the pressure, he'd just choke. And so he actually, he actually won the last one before he took off, he won. But I mean, anytime in the shop, that guy was untouchable, but when you put him on the spot and he would just crumble. So yeah. It's just a fun way about being impressed when you go in and someone, oh, they put a heart in there. That's like, yeah, yeah, no. And this was answered it that, yeah, totally. And it's so fun to just see the community come together. I mean, it's just an industry thing. Everybody has mutual respect. The prizes are usually coffee specific and really fun. And so it's just a way for everybody to get together who has this shared interest, right. It's specific. And it's just like a big party with everybody. And yeah, it's usually the environment is just party vibes, you know? So it's just a chance, like everybody in that specific industry to yeah. Get together and, you know, show, show what they got. So, yeah, it's pretty fun. It's pretty fun. It's a real casual, like, you know, just a bunch of people getting together to show their stuff. Also tell me about these coffee classes that you've recently started. Yeah. So man, we were so excited to get that going. And it's been two years since we had a class at the public. And like we, since the beginning, that's been a huge piece of our puzzle is that we like, we love learning. We love like continued education and so fun for us to kind of, you know, open the curtain up a little bit and just let everybody know that they can understand what, what it means to like produce quality coffee on their own. And we've been doing those classes. We did a great series before COVID with edible, Idaho and the Boise co-op three-part series and like guy hand, guy hand. Yeah. I'm working with those guys and just doing like, like, we just love opening people's brains and giving them an opportunity to see. You know, what's, what's going on and to realize like, it's just all those questions, you can't answer at the counter and you got the guy in front of you. That's interested the guy behind it's not. And so trying to manage that situation. So it just gives an opportunity to say, Hey, come to this class. And that was Kate. And I used to teach them together. And I mean, we love them. And so we've had, we had to stop with all the COVID stuff and it's been two full years. So just on this last Friday, we launched the first of a S a three-part series. So we're just doing first one's about origins and understanding where coffee comes from and how, how, where it comes from affects how it tastes so that you can walk into a Albertson's or a co-op. Not be so overwhelmed by all the names on the bags, hopefully demystify some of what it means to, you know, just what all these words mean. There's a bunch of words on a coffee bag. And what does that, how does that relate to me? Can I pick a understand and pick a coffee I'm going to like, without being a total guessing game? The second one we're roasting one-on-one so we're going to have the classes at our roasting facility which is a building that we just got last year. And so, yeah, we'll have, we're actually going to two two classes for that back to back and yeah, just let people kind of come in and see how it goes, like see how to, how we do the whole thing and like how the sausage is made over there and how like, and bag their own coffee and help us roast it and then take it home and take home a bag that they roasted. And then the third one will be a class that we've done a bunch in the past called I forgot what it's called Homebrew. It's basically a Homebrew class. So Homebrew like a boss. That's what it's called. But it's essentially like w we have no. Like we, Kate and I just use regular coffee maker, you know, and like a grinder on our counter people, you know, we don't have a crazy set up at our house. We've got three little kids and we just want to be able to push the button and the coffee comes out. And so speaking my wife's language, right. You know, when you over for dinner, you're like, what's your coffee set up? I'm like, here it is. I got, I got all the other stuff, but it's in the cabinet. It's like, I'd love a good pour over, but, you know yeah. And you don't have that. I mean, a lot of it's running around, kids run around and like he needed to, so we just, I mean, we have nice equipment, but really understanding that like it comes, it starts with a good quality bean. So our whole thing is like, I don't matter if you have a Hamilton beach coffee maker or, you know, you've got some mocha master or whatever, some crazy thing, or you're doing espresso at home with a full-on Lamar's OCO mini. Like, I don't know what your setup is, but the whole spectrum, you should be able to produce quality coffee that you like to drink with your equipment. And. During the course of all that you think that maybe your equipment could be upgraded and you might like it more cool. Right. You know, like we sell that stuff and you can buy it from us if you want, but we'll catch you at all levels. You shouldn't be, I mean, they're buying the coffee off of the shelf at our shop or at the grocery store taking it home. So we want to make sure that they are reproducing that product in a way. I mean, like we can't expect everybody to have, I mean, whether you're doing a French press or a special machine, you know, and everywhere in between. So that's kind of the fun piece as we go around and ask everybody like how you bring it home. And everybody's kind of like, looks at the ground like, oh, I just have this, you know, cost me $20 at Walmart. And we're like flavor crystals in a cup with some hot water. And, well, I know when we were working through some of the initial packaging stuff, this shows my ignorance, the valve exhaust valve. Is that what it's called? Gassing gassing valve. I thought as being a little kid. My parents would buy those packages of coffee at the grocery store and they have the little valve and you can squeeze it and you can smell the coffee. I was like, that's how you see what it smells like. Oh my gosh. That is hilarious. That was like, what? I always thought and sorry, there's no way my mom will be listening to this, but she would probably be like, that is what it's for. But they were like, no, that's like how it cause off gases, right? It, yeah. That's funny. Yeah. No, I mean, you can smell it that way. Please. Please tell me someone listening thought the same thing. I think we hold it earlier. Yeah, no, it's yeah. It's so fun to be able to, to like see people light up when they realize like, oh, you know, like we, and we tell people all the time, like, obviously we prefer the way that we make coffee. Otherwise we wouldn't make it that way. You know? And we like the style of coffee that we make. That's why we roast it in the way we do. But like it's, we don't think it's better. Than any or worse, it's just different. There's plenty of entry points, plenty of entry points. And there's like, it's just, this is a, another way of having coffee. And that's the way that we explain it all the time is it's not, it's just another way. I mean, you can, you know, obviously, and we say it this way, like, I mean, you you're cooking a green bean. You can make it like aldente and crispy and nice and crunchy has all the sweetness and the flavor. You can also like boil it, chop it up, put her in a jar, put a lid on it and put it in your pantry. It's still a green bean. Yep. Now one of them might be preferred to the other yep. Same product. And so like, same thing with steak, you know, nice, medium rare or whatever it is. Or you can push it all the way to like deep, well done. I mean, it's still a piece of meat, but just different ways of having it. And there people's preference varies by the amount of ways that you can have it. So it's just like, however you have it. And we just like to push people along a little bit and say, this is how you have had this product before. And that's awesome. Love that you're enjoying coffee. You might consider. Try and get in this other way, and maybe you could experience it. It's still coffee. It's still the product that, you know, maybe you could try it like this and, and see if maybe you like this preparation better or worse and wherever you land on that spectrum is great. And we just, we just are in, it's fun for us when people are interested in the process and that's really like, full-stop like, it's just cool that people are interested and that they're willing to like come and sit and listen. So yeah, the class series is awesome. This is the first installment of this three-part series. And then the next one coming up after that's a two-part about espresso and just letting people get behind the bar, like seeing what it's like to make espresso. The second class we got latte art and pouring that. So it was just like fun stuff again to just demystify. We have no like secret, you know, it's like this go anywhere and learn, but we're happy to like open it up and have people come and check it out. It should be fun. Right. It's coffee. And at the end of the day, I mean, yeah, yeah. It's been water, you know, it's not, not a big deal. I mean, we've, it's where we've hung our hat. Sure. But at the end of the day, it's just coffee and it's not, it's, it's more than just coffee. Otherwise you wouldn't have people showing up to your shop every day. True. True. Yeah. Yeah. And we, we love it and we love the community and I think that, that part of it, and we tell all of our, all of our people when we're hiring them or whatever, that, like, we love coffee, but we love people more. And that's just, you know, we like them. We like them both. And we just like, we will never sacrifice people for the coffee. And so we just we love Boise as a community. I mean, we're still doing the farmer's market, even though that was just like something we did to get by. We S we've done it every year and we're still doing it this year. And just cause we love it. And it's the people there are the best. And it's just like, I think like some of the purest form of like what Boise is. Yeah, it's, it's awesome. So we just, we love the people. We love the industry. We love having something that we can like give to Boise, you know, to like our city and be like, Hey, and you walk around. I still like weird, but like, I love seeing our coffee cups and like the trash cans, like a public, I'll see you one in there. And I'm like, well, you made it all the way over here. They were fifth. And now it's like, you know, and like that kind of stuff. And I'm like, well, let's see somebody I'm driving and I'll look over and they've got like a district cup in their car and I'm like, no way I give him the head nod. And they're like, why is he looking at me? And they're like swerve off the road, but I just, that's so crazy to me still, you know, and that we can even like donate a bag of coffee to go in a gift basket, you know, whatever. It's just crazy that it's like, oh, we have a product that not this people want to like put in their gift basket. You know? I don't know. It's just, it's still, still fun in that part. It's still, still great. And the fact that we have something to give and that it's something that people want to have. That's. So what's next. Sorry, I'm interrupting. What what's next? What's the next chapter? Where are you guys going? Yeah. And we are kind of always looking for what's next we're. We are opening a third location. That'll be a second form of function. We're going to be a part of that orchard park development, Shannon and lender. So the new wind, they built out their big development. That's going with, they just did a Winnco they're doing like library, love that huge. The barn surf wave thing. A couple of their calling food halls out there. There'll be several of us downtown guys that are going out there. So that was slated to be July this year, but like everything is being pushed. It looks like maybe Q1 of next year. And yeah, I mean, a couple of other opportunities that are out there. We're always looking to like, if there's an amenity that's needed in the city, you know, like. Anywhere, there's a coffee desert. We want to go. And we have a hard time reigning in like, oh, we should do that. And we should do that. So we're always looking, we love being a part of stuff. And so we're always looking for what the next opportunity is. And we just like, we don't necessarily want to grow just to grow, but we want to grow in ways that are like fun for us. And like give us energy and feel like add vitality to the city. So usually those ideas are the ones that get the most traction with us. It's less like, Hey, there's the strip mall. And we want you to go in it. And more of like, here's this project that we think is going to benefit the city in this way. And those kinds of things. We're like, no, that sounds cool. And that sounds like something that we can spend our energy on because we don't have a lot of energy. We have three little kids and, you know, two businesses and a roastery and a mobile shop. And, you know, it was just lots of, lots of irons in the fire and, and we just sold our house and we just moved. Thank you, Jed. So we got some things going on, but yeah. But yeah, so we're, we're always looking to move and grow and do something different right now. The only one we've got for sure is that orchard park move. And then yeah, a couple of ideas out there, but always kind of keeping our ear to the ground. It's still the last question. It just side rail jet. He was like, now, where do I go? That's why we can edit this. It's totally planned, planned to edit right there. I would talk forever and teach us laying. Now, do you want to get into any of the advice and that stuff? Yeah. It's sort of working backwards. Yeah. Where'd we leave off next steps. I wanted to know what he was doing sort away. Yeah. Okay. I'll pick it up. Yeah. Hard-stop reenter. So it sounds like community is important, obviously. Yeah. How does that fit into your. Business as far as you see success. Hm. Well, we've said is there are a few pillars that exist within how we've tried to do business, like our products on the way we've sourced them and tried to create them, our employees, our community, and the fact that we live in a capitalist society and we have to make money. And so there's, this have to make money part, our employees, our community, and our products and how we've championed those. And we will never do anything to either one of those arms that will adversely affect the other long-term and we try not to. And so, you know, in this moment when we're, you know, really trying to understand what it means to be an employer and how to, you know, navigate the sea of employees we can't make changes to everything that will negatively impact the products that we've championed or the business that we've created or who we want to be in the community. And I think that like, as we look at what we're doing, like I was just telling Kate the other night after we finished that first class, it was just such a sigh of relief that we felt like, oh, this is what we're doing. This is who we want to be. We want to engage. We want to educate. We want to like connect and we want to make a red product. We don't get to do any of that without first having a product that people are interested in, but also we don't just want to stop there. And so it, like, it felt like we were like, oh, this is why we were made. You know, like, this is what we exist for is to like, just engage the community to be available, to stand and be able to talk and answer questions and like, whatever it is about that you're curious about, like, again, pull back the curtain. Yeah. It's such a symbiotic approach with your customers. Like, it's not like here's what we're doing. Take it or leave it. You're you're open to feedback. Yeah. Well, and it is a unique approach compared to all the other shops. Right. Is anybody else doing that? Not that I'm aware of. Yeah. Yeah. It's continued to be an area that we have carved out, you know, and we have, I mean, we built form and function with that area in the back. Like we call it the lab, we have a big whiteboard for that purpose. It's all about it. You know, we have the tables back there that are skinny, so they can slide out and be tables or be desks for the classes that area was built to educate. And so that's a big piece of what we feel like we can do, you know, and like help people learn and, and understand. So, yeah, it's, I mean, that, that piece of being able to give back is, is huge. And really like, I mean, the feedback part, we, there are certainly easier ways and my business buddies, or, you know, there are easier ways to do what we do and you could probably make more money if you were smarter than me. Doing what we do. I don't know how to do it any different than I do, but like when it comes to people, we certainly do it the hard way I think. And we just, I personally, I just care too much. Like, it sounds dumb, but like, I just, I like people and they, you know, I, they affect me, I'm affected by them. And so we don't want to just like have employees. I don't want to just, you know, like clock in, clock out. I might, there are times certainly when I let them affect me more than maybe I should, but I just, can't not do that. And so I think it's a big part of how we operate in the world. And so we don't want to like, change that for how we do business necessarily. So it it might make me sleep better if I did, but I just, I can't do it. And so hopefully can get better at the balance of that. But yeah, I would just, just like people an awful lot, you know, I really love how I think your, your past at flying M you're effected that way. And you want to create that same effect for the people that you work. Yes. You know, that's, that's kinda cool. I like that part. Yeah. Yeah. No. And Kevin and Lisa were awesome, you know, and so instrumental. And I think understanding like, oh, this is what it could look like. And I wonder if they even knew what they were doing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know anything about them, but like all of this creativity was birthed in that shop where they anticipating that that's what it would equate to and that their investments would equal this in any way. I don't know. I mean, they, they definitely attracted a group of people that were more than employees. I mean, it was a unique time and it was a unique group for sure. I mean, it felt like, I mean that group of people, you know, dynamic, I mean, there was, I mean, Nathan Walker booking shows and, you know, and I was doing duck club and tree for it. And like, I mean, all the pieces and the people that were there for that, I mean, Wil who's now the manager at the flight I'm here and has been for well, and Kelly had been there for. I don't know, 10, 12 years, I don't know a long time, but I mean, it all just like it was a group, it was a time when a group of people worked there that, I mean, it was pretty, pretty amazing. I mean, Cassidy was baking and now messenger pizza and like all that stuff that all kind of was birthed from that moment. I think if anything, they gave us space to just be, and I mean, it's a unique spot anyways, that allows people to be whatever they want. And so I think that part, you know, gave a bunch of kids in a space from a farm down, you know, to understand that like, oh, we can champion these things about ourselves and explore and it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think just loving on people and allowing them that creative space. And then you may not know what you're doing, but it's not going to end poorly. Right. Exactly. So back to the business, What would you say is your biggest wins so far in the current business? Because there was a laundry list of a series of unfortunate events. Like all these things that I heard that I'm like, oh my gosh. And then you skip to like, your big win would be like, oh, in three years, these are numbers. And then you're like, oh, we're open. We hit it. Like, that could be one, but I mean, it's when you open something and it's off, just get us off the ground. There's so much happening. I don't even think you can like, appreciate anything. Right. When you're in it. It's just like, oh, this is great. But like, was there a specific point where UNK or like, like the home run of all home runs? Is there one, I mean, gosh, that's a hard question. It's all felt pretty surreal. I mean, the whole thing feels like, because we've had so many ideas because we bought a skate shop and we were 20 and that failed and we tried this and that and like a bylaws to. Nonprofit that I wanted to launch when I was 18, you know, like all those little things that were tries, it's still kind of scary to lean on the laurels of this and feel like, oh, we made it. Cause it feels like, hopefully this isn't just the other try. You know, even though it's been this many years is like, well, I don't, you know, there's, it feels like there's this impending doom, you know, it's always kind of like waiting to all come crashing down. But I mean, there's been some really fun stuff. I mean, Kate got featured in like barista magazine, which we read and we have continued to read, but the fact like she was in it, there was like, you know, daily coffee news. We were on that. Just some stuff for us that we never thought it would be. You uncrate on the online men's magazine. Like we were featured on uncrate. That was insane. We got pings on our website from all over the world. From that you were sending me stuff on uncrate, like cool products. Like this is awesome. And then all of a sudden you're like, check this out was like the Ethiopia. Yeah. You're a good chef. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. And it was a killer coffee, you know, and like we sent our coffees off to get judged and we won some awards. I mean, it was just crazy stuff like that where you, you know, I don't know if there was one that felt like a huge home run. I mean, literally being open felt like a home run, being able to, because of all the obstacles that opening the doors and paying the rent felt like there's no way this is possible on a new construction, like with remodel money. Now we've got like knowing what you'd already been through to such a lower level and having the rug pulled out on what we thought was the perfect spot. And then realizing at this point that like, even at that spot, we would have had this glass ceiling. So really the space we are now is afforded and even relationships with the wild. And, you know, like, or, you know, Dave and Lindsay, your friends, wires now, like that relationship and all this crazy stuff they're doing in the city. And so just having that ear for me to call those guys up and say help me you know, it was just great to build that kind of relationship too. So, I mean, yeah, the biggest thing for me, maybe it's just even the fact that we're viable as a business, you know, it's like a crazy idea that is just like, oh, this is where I'm roasting coffee in a building that we bought. I mean, it's just like, and when I turn on the lights, people keep showing up to the door and walking through and the lights come on. It took me three years of a trend before in my fourth year, I would agree to the fact that there was a trend. And now in my fifth year and six year I go, okay, This isn't going away. Right. So I totally identify with that. I completely get that. It's like, all right, are we still operating in a anomaly or is this thing going to continue next year? Yeah. Yeah. And the imposter syndrome, part of that, that's like, there's no way, you know, as soon as they figure out that we're just kids, you know, trying to figure this game out, like they're going to, how old are you now come knocking 36. I don't know that you can call yourself a kid at I know. Yeah. Tell that to my knees. They agree with you. How about a biggest mistake so far in the business? Just one or I was going to say, sounds like there's many to choose from. We talked about some, let's say form and function and district. Yeah. I mean the two things it's so interesting as they, we run them both the same. They are essentially they have the same coffee, they have the same equipment, they're just wearing different clothes and they run like a completely different thing. And one good idea for form is not a good idea for district and vice versa. And so it is absolutely owning two completely different businesses. They're kids, you need to treat them differently. Totally. Yeah. And there isn't, you know, I can't design something for a mug or a shirt or some kind of swag that works at form and then just copy paste that to district they're totally different. It won't sell, you know, and vice versa. So I think that piece of it is, you know, is tricky. I don't, I it's, yeah. The two of them are just so different that they don't talk very well. I don't know if, I mean, district was such a specific thing when it opened. I don't think we would've done very well if we would've closed it and opened it as a form and function, instead of maintaining the. I think about that often. I wonder what that would've looked like, but at the time we had just opened form. So it felt like a bit of a land grab if we were like, you know, like, well, all of a sudden now. Yeah. And especially because if we're like, oh, is this a chain? Like you have chocolates and shirts and mugs, and that will suddenly have two locations out. So I don't know. I don't know if that would've worked or not, but yeah, I think, I mean, I think one of the things biggest mistake wise is probably in regards to people and how we've managed employees. Initially for me, for me personally, my language was always, I want to be your friend. Don't make me be your boss. Like I would rather be pals than be the guy that's keeping you accountable. You just do your job. I'll do my job. We'll all be friends. And that was my initial mentality and it didn't go very well. And I learned from. Using your dad voice, right. Just lowering it a little bit. I learned from another friend in the industry that to change the way that I aligned to those things. And he said I am your boss. The cool thing is I get to be your friend. And just swapping that just little semantic switch for me was huge. And just realizing like first and foremost, I need to be a person in charge. There needs to be a person that's accountable. And that is me. And so I need to say, this is what we're doing, and this is where we're going. I functioned as your boss. Isn't it cool that also has your boss. We get to be pals and, you know, we can go hang out and do whatever. But at the end of the day, when they said, Hey, who's Scott, they would say, oh, that's my boss. It's an authority thing they need to understand. Yeah. And that was hard for me. Cause I still don't like that very much. You know, I'd rather be pals, but it just. It was a truth that I had to learn. And I really did poorly at that early on. And the way that I manage people was really to just like assume that they would understand that I didn't like what they were doing. And then eventually it gets so fired up about what they're doing. That I'd be like, Hey, you're fired. And they'd be like, what? This is the first time hearing of this, you know, like, what do you mean yesterday? We were best friends and now I'm fired, you know, instead of it just wasn't being, you know, our friend Renee brown, you know, to be clear is to be kind. And that, that piece of it, I still really struggle with, you know, being like the best thing for them is to be crystal clear on my expectations and whether they're being met or not, and that helps them understand the status and where they're at. And it helps me understand really clearly where I fit into this puzzle and being ambiguous. Isn't helpful for anybody. And that's still a lesson that I'm learning daily, but hoping to get better on, but that's definitely an area where I've I have failed. I'll say that for sure. I understand where that line is between giving people the benefit of the doubt and just being unclear and that being not very kind. So are you going to do coffee forever? Is this the last business? You know, I might be involved with coffee forever. I think that I still love too many things. I still love like the motorcycle community. I love that part of, you know, Boise's got some incredible builders and it's like that, that part of it. I love, I think that there's opportunities in other areas. I got my commercial real estate license or my real estate license last year, or end of 20, I guess. Yeah. And I just, I think realized that I have a really deep passion for. Architecture and buildings. And I love the idea of finding people spaces that will fit what they're trying to do. I think because of my experience of knocking on so many doors and trying to be like, well, we have in your construction background. Oh yeah. I mean, understanding how buildings are built, how they're constructed and how that might be changed. I mean, even from a residential perspective, it'd be like, yeah, move all these walls or whatever it is. Like I know that they can be moved. And so being able to offer that insight huge. And then like, we looked around so much for a space that fit us and it got pitched so many spaces that were like, do you know who we are like, this isn't a good spot for us and wasting our time, you know, w which at the time was precious kicking down, like knocking on doors and buildings that just didn't make any sense for our business. And so I love the idea of being able to like partner up with people again, the hardest way possible to find them like the space that matches exactly what they're trying to do. And be like your business and this physical spot fit. And no, it's not available for lease right now, but let's see if we can shake it down, you know? And like, I dunno, this building have been sitting here forever. Let's see who owns it, you know, and go pull up the public records and see if we can like find somebody's cell phone number. Like, I love that. And I think that, that sounds really fun. And if I could put myself into a position where we were able to do that for people on a regular basis, I think I would certainly love it. I have, I have strengths and weaknesses and a lot of my weaknesses are born out in managing people. And so I think if we ever got to a spot where we could find somebody to manage the coffee shops and the people on a daily operations level, and I could just be like culture champion and like jump in there and be everybody's hype man, and, you know, encourage them while we talk about that too. Like a business is something. You can step away and it's still, it's still the same thing they expect, which is a challenge. It is getting to that point, for sure. Scalability. Yeah. And finding, and really like finding people that are able to be who you would be if you were standing there. And so like finding employees that treat customers like you would and finding managers that, you know, see the details that you only, you can see. I mean, that's what makes people owners, you know, and business starters as they see this stuff, other people don't. And most of the time, what that means is, and I think Elon Musk is the one that said this, like you, your best people. You're only going to have for a really short amount of time because they're on their way to do something. Awesome. Yeah. And usually we're just fortunate to get them while they're in their in-between to find something else. Awesome. And I think that's a hard thing for me too. Cause you know, you invest in people, but really it's, it's a. You know, using them the most you can while they're here, what you guys experienced it flying up again, same thing you weren't there forever, but they got a really good period of time from you. Yeah. You guys did cool things together. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah. And it, it and I think that's, that's part of the, the learning process is like getting people in and being like, wow, you guys are dynamic and be cool for us to someday be able to provide an environment where we could pay people. And, you know, right now we can't like hire a bunch of managers to do, you know, whatever. Do we have to do it ourselves, but if we can get to that spot someday, I think that'd be really neat to be able to just settle into the part of the Venn diagram that I'm best at. You got to sort this whole cloning thing out fast track it. Where's that? What was that sheep's name? Oh yeah. Now people are doing with their dogs, but no, that's cool. Yeah. Digress. What's your biggest piece of advice? Oh man, regards to business. Yeah. I think that you, whatever the thing is that you're trying to do whatever it is you're trying to champion. You just have to go all in. You have to show it, not only to the community and to the thing that you're willing to go all in, but it signals something to yourself that there's no safety net and you are currently leveraged beyond anything you could possibly recover from. So, but it says something, it does something to your spirit. I think that says, this is where we're going, and this is what we're doing. And I'm all in. And I think, you know, it takes a lot of time and you have to try, you have to get good at things. You are like nails on a chalkboard. Like you just, you know, I'm doing things now with numbers. Like I'm just not a numbers. But you have to do them and you have to understand them. And so I think it's really just like cutting the ties and going all in, give it a shot, you know, like worst case scenario, you lose your house, no big deal. And you got to move into a trailer, but like, I mean, as long as you escape with your life and I think you just have to go all in and you just can't expect to be successful in an area. And some people are that just wasn't me. I was more a school of hard knocks and didn't finish college and, you know, so it just was like, I had to swing the hammer and I physically did. And so if I was going to be successful, I didn't have a degree to fall back on it and have anything. And so it was just like, I just had to work. I had to subject myself to working harder and staying longer and sweeping all the floors and doing all the things and then just going from there. So I think it's, you really just have to trust your idea. Trust all. If you have a passionate thing that you do and you feel like you just can't trust it, if you're really passionate about it, but you feel like it's too scary and you can't trust it. Maybe you need to go back to the drawing board. And we got to the point with the coffee shop. We just realized if this is gonna work, we gotta jump and got to quit. The corporate job, we got to lose the insurance, got to lose the 401k, got to do it, lose all that stuff. The earning potential, you know, the, all the stuff from taking somebody else's money that is available to you. And a lot of people do it and it's great, but it just, you know, I think there was a bit of unrest there and we just had to realize like, if this is gonna fly, we gotta, we gotta jump. So I think that, you know, for me is what really, if you're going to do it, you gotta call in and if you're not ready to do that, then you probably need to sharpen your pencil on, on your idea and make sure it's something that's gonna hold water. So given everything we've discussed, would you say your. This point in time. Oh, Kate is laughing out loud right now. You know, what, if I'm not happy now, I don't know when I would ever be. And whatever emotion I'm feeling in this moment is the highest and best you know, of, of this, of this life cycle that I'm in. So I think I have nothing to complain about. You're just always chasing something. Yeah. Yeah. And just, you know, there's always being a creative and all those things for me personally, like there's a lot of unfulfilled things. But unchecked boxes, but the drive is the curse. Yeah. And, but like what we have and what we, you know, what we've been able to do with our family and where we're at. And I mean, some of that, a lot of what we have hasn't come from the coffee shops, it's come from other choices we made in real estate and then whatever it is. But a lot of what we have has come from the coffee shop and the. You know, I'm sitting here in the middle of the day talking to you. I mean, nobody's telling me to go back to work. I mean, I haven't checked my phone, but but you know, that's something I, you know, I could complain to you as much as I wanted to in this moment, but the fact is I'm sitting here and we're doing this right now. And so we're so fortunate to be where we are and to be doing what we're doing, that you know, if this isn't happiness, then I guess I'm not really sure what is, yeah. It's important to appreciate that. Look back and see what you've done and where you were four years ago. Gone. Here we go. Yeah. Can I have to be calling my parents? Yeah. Yeah. I've been in, I've been in worse positions. Yeah. We always like to extend at the end of the podcast and opportunity for those who have maybe been encouraged or inspired by you to find a way to connect with you. Is that something that you would welcome? Sure. Yeah. What's the best way for them to do. You know, probably through our social medias we have, you know, several of them out there. And if somebody wants to get to you tomorrow, how do you want them to contact you? You know what? They can just send me an email. That's probably the fastest way to do it. Yeah, just hello at foreman function, coffee.com. Attention, your name. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I'm in, those are all coming to my inbox, so yeah. Yeah. I see all of them and check them and read them all and awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely the best way for people to get ahold of me and then yeah, go from there. But I just remember my, you know, first and second year self, I was looking for other people that could be a source of inspiration for me and, you know, to meet with and go, is everything gonna be okay? You know, it sounds like you've had a couple of those relationships for yourself as well. Oh yeah. That you've leaned in on and there's a lot of the business community out there. Doesn't know, you know, that there's others out there that have been there before them that are willing to either give them a kick in the pants or, you know, words of encouragement. Yeah, no, absolutely. We, I, I lean into that personally every week, trying to find people that are just one step farther than I am and can understand, and just be honest with what I don't know and say to anybody that's a little bit further, help me understand all the things that all my blind spots, what I'm not seeing, why I'm working like this and not like that or whatever it is. And yeah, certainly reaching out to anybody that'll listen and saying like, Hey, what am I, what am I doing? And then being available for that for anybody that's, you know a notch, you know, downstream. Yeah. Okay. Aside from a relationship, is there a piece of content or material that's been most encouraging to you that somebody could find and also be encouraged by you mentioned Bernay brown. Yeah. I podcast a lot kind of my wheelhouse and. A lot of stuff that I've been tapping into lately. A lot of it some of Sam Harris has stuff on he has a app called waking up and it's just on like mindfulness and meditation and for a person like me, I need to like chill out and calm down. Cause I get pretty really high anxiety and really stressed out and that doesn't help anybody including me. So yeah, a lot of, just for me, it's a lot of mindfulness, a lot of just like, I mean yeah. You know Renee Brown's podcast, I think it's called dare, dare to know or something like that. Yeah, just, I mean, I love hearing that content from people again that are just a little bit farther down the road and listening to, I mean, I listened to, you know, work-life that and grant and you know, just some of those different ones we can just hear like, oh yeah. Other people have been here. This isn't unique to me. Totally. And finding those, those avenues. I, I listen to a lot of things cause I'm. And my car driving from one spot to the other, so good resources. Thanks, Scott. This was a blast. Yeah, guys. Thanks for having me. I know you better. I didn't know. You hardly at all. See, that's kind of fun and that is fun. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Lots of interesting experiences that you've gone through and I think a series of unfortunate events. I mean, if you would've known everything that you had to get through to get to where you're at, would you have agreed to do it? Oh man. I'm kind of a glutton for punishment, so yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. It would've been, I would've assumed that was my that was my just dessert or I deserve that path. Yeah. Well, it's cool hearing about all those things to see, like, you know, I, I think I saw something today that said You know, don't be upset with people who are living there. Perfect moment when you don't know what their unperfect moments have been that led them there. And you're like, yeah. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get to where you landed. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. And giving people that opportunity to just like, we just have no idea you and your employees walk in upset or whatever it is. Like, you don't know what's going on outside of those four walls. Right. Given a little room for that. We always tell everybody they have the opportunity when they come to work to leave everything outside. And it's not like a, you know, you're being forced to leave everything outside, but you have the chance to like come into a sanctuary and have a moment of reprieve where you can just be at work. Right. And you can do this job and know that there's a start. Because everything will be waiting for you outside when you leave. Yeah. It's not going away, but you have a moment here, the nice promise that you give them that you don't really get to take on yourself. So true. Yeah. Helping them understand that's it? That is a privilege to live in, clocking out baby. Well, they're beautiful spaces and everyone needs to go there right now and enjoy it. Maybe spread it out a little bit so they don't get too overwhelmed, but yeah. Yeah. Eventually everyone go. All right. Thanks Scott. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Hey, thanks for joining us today. And listening in, we're really glad that you did. We're always open to having more guests on the podcasts and so long as they live here in Boise and are actively involved in building business here, no matter where that business might be located, we're actually very interested in learning more from them and potentially sharing their story through this podcast, feel free to send us a recommendation for a future guest or simply connect with us on Instagram at Boise business builders. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and we would greatly appreciate a review. Thanks again.